Selection from Forgotten Land 

选自《寂寞生灵》

Selection from Forgotten Land

选自《寂寞生灵》

Selection from Forgotten Land

选自《寂寞生灵》

Selection from Forgotten Land

选自《寂寞生灵》

Selection from Forgotten Land

选自《寂寞生灵》

Selection from Forgotten Land

选自《寂寞生灵》

Selection from Forgotten Land

选自《寂寞生灵》

Selection from Forgotten Land

选自《寂寞生灵》

Selection from Forgotten Land

选自《寂寞生灵》

Selection from Forgotten Land

C: Why did you decide to focus the camera on Xihaigu?

W: In 1992, the editor of "Modern Photography" Li Mei sent me Zhang Chengzhi's novel, History of the Soul. It is about Sufi Jahriyya in the Xihaigu region's sacrifice to keep the purity of mind. Although I am of Hui ethnicity, born in Xiji of Xihaigu, I left there when I was three, and grew up in Yinchuan. I didn't understand the history and life of the Hui people there, so reading History of the Soul impresses me. And because of it, I decided to go by Li Mei's suggestion to take a full shot on Xihaigu. I talked about this reason in previous interviews, I'm just repeating it here.

C: Can you explain the experience of creating the works at Xihaigu?

W: There was a total of three years of preparation, 1992 to 1995, reading books, searching for information, writing prompts; eight years of shooting, 1995 to 2003,  targeting specific areas and making records; and began to publish, hold exhibitions, etc from 2001. In a simple way, this was how it went.

C: There is a lot of photography about Xihaigu, what makes your work different from the others?

W: As one of the special photography topics in China, it did produce a lot of works in the past 20 years, with the value of the theme, a lot of photographers will go there.

In the 70s of the last century, the State Council has a "Three Xi's Organization", an institution to solve peasants' lives brought by extreme poverty in Longxi, Dingxi, and Xihaigu, with the World Food Programme providing food, is too poor, there are no images except for broadcasting news.

When I just began photographing in the 80s, the older generation of photographers from Ningxia usually goes to Mount Huangshan in Guilin and places like that. Those with better financial status will go to Shanbei, Henan, or Tibet, Xinjiang for culture or art. Shooting is not so similar back then, it is more on demonstrating single workpieces. Only starting in the 90s did "documentary" photography began to be practiced, welcoming a harvest of Chinese photography. Among those, Hou Dengke's Mai Ke is very representative, it not only shows the photographer's personal vision, but the topic is also specialized. A great portion of photos from "Mai Ke's Hometown" of the series was made in the late 1990s at Xihaigu, we generally shot it together. In other words, Xihaigu became a valued photography theme in the mid-late 1990s, this is relative to my later photo transmission about Xihaigu. Other important and organized works include Liu Jinxun's "Su Fei's Plateau", Sun Yuefeng's "One's Xihaigu", Ning Xiahaiyang also shot more than 20 years of color photos that are still editing and unpublished, and there are many others.

As for analyzing the difference between various photographers, works, and texts are your or other critics' job. There are already a lot of comments on Xihaigu's photos, you can't even get to read them all.

C: What is the relationship between two of your works Forgotten Land and Zakat in Drought, what is special about Zakat in Drought?

W: Shooting Xihaigu is a big project according to today's standards. There is an average of 100 workdays every year, a total of 1000 rolls of 135 black and white films. The filming framework established at that time was based on a neutral presentation of the living conditions of the Hui Muslims in Xihaigu. The structure method was mainly based on sociology, that is, to state the relationship between man and land, the relationship between people, the relationship between people and cultural inheritance, and also encompass human beings. The study methods of science and ethnography on specific people themselves.Forgotten Land displays the key part of this project, the whole thing was edited by Li Mei. The initial title was "The Last Xihaigu", it was changed to "Eternal Xihaigu" in an exhibition in Beijing after the suggestion by Wang Wenlan, then it was officially named "Forgotten Land" in China Renmin University Press in "China Photographers Series".

Collecting and editing are both vital when shooting photos, even if the raw products are not good enough, as long as it is big in quantity, editing can reestablish the concept and a better script. Without Li Mei's editing, there would be no grace in "The Last Xihaigu", Mai Keby Hou Dengke is also this way.

It is usually difficult to make life scenes clear even if you know the direction and content. Most photos are made under the constant change of the subject, so things will be quite messy, it is better to press the shutter when you get the feel. Photography cannot always be rational, thus playing with the visual structure is also common. There are no such things as this should be taken and that should be avoided, there is more release of intuition. In a long-term photography project, producing many different images is very normal.

You can take it like this, Forgotten Land focuses on describing the subject at a condition, while Zakat in Drought emphasizes the visual effect of the image. Forgotten Land and Zakat in Drought were produced at the same time, the two just have different ways of expression. They are scripts made under different editorial methods, luckily there was a great quantity, so there are no repeated photos, and that is why Zakat in Drought retains freshness.

Zhang Jun said: "When talking about Xihaigu, it is hard to get away from Forgotten Land, yet Zakat in Drought can be viewed as the 'sister production', it is the rediscovery and presentation of Xihaigu's image." 

C: Which camera did you use when you are making Forgotten Landand Zakat in Drought, why did you choose to make it black-and-white?

W: At first I used Nikon FM2, then Cannon EO55. There were two reasons that I chose black-and-white, one of which is the yellow dirt and blue sky of Xihaigu, a contrast between a warm color and a cool color, plus the people dressed mostly in black clothes and white hat, it is hard to unify them when editing; secondly, most of my experience of the first ten years came from black-and-white photos, I used to make publicity boards and soak in the darkroom, so I like it a lot, it is a personal preference.

C: You said you utilized sociology and anthropology when creating. There are many art photographers today who claim that they combined sociology and anthropology while producing. What is your perspective on this, what are the advantages, disadvantages, and restrictions?

W: How should I describe it? When photographers claim that they used sociology and anthropology, it has to be analyzed in detail on their specific script, it can't be generalized.

The Henan female artist, Mei Ruo Mei did a photography project "Walk on the Border" a few years ago, the works are landscape views at the inter-provincial border of Henan and Shandong. And after her edits, she paired different sceneries of the two provinces, if this side has a crowd of people, then the other side will be a stone beast in the wild. The pairs are free and abundant and have amazing visual sense. The after effect did not completely overlap them, there was space between each of the pairs when exhibited with means to be put together. The "border" that she presented belongs to the social space of different people, it is also the result and phenomenon of some kind of power. The whole group of work unmistakably expressed the relationship between regions, it just did not follow the convention of sociology to classify her images. Mei Ruo Mei is an artist, presenting her intuition as a female artist.

Zhao Huaer once took years to make a sociological photography project about the Mosuo village in Yunnan. The photo collection is very prominent in sociology, the color pictures are meticulous and precise, detailed in every aspect of items and tools, following microsociology's fieldwork method. The degree of completion is high and praised by many in sociology and anthropology fields, but not many people know in the photography circle.

I have once read an article on the research of American critics on Taca Sui's "Odes", it dug in from the direction of anthropology, the article was very profound. Another young Anhui artist, Zhang Wenxin, her photos and VLOG works present far-reaching imagery, we can always connect anthropology motifs: Where did I come from? Where will I go? Who am I? I am their fan, I really like their works.

Not long ago the Gansu Youth Photography Association's Official Account published a group of Zhang Jun's work "The World was Once the Same Nation", it was a group of color photos about Xihaigu from twelve years ago, they are straightforward, not deliberately "photography". Zhan Jun was a scholar in anthropology, he used and presented more behavioral styled pictures, with his word, it was obviously completed with an anthropological frame. I said this when I talk to him, we don't have to go on pure visual photography, those who debuted as photographers are too "photographic", today, showing images under anthropological frame is quite a good path, and this is also something that people cannot learn without academic basics.

Going back to the question on borders, current and future humans are not some opposing to each other, any walls in any forms are futile, only when going back to the root of life, will we have the Buddhist "everything is the same" point of view. Contribution from the differences in the language of art is also a supplementary contribution. There is no essential confrontation, not to mention photography.

Widely speaking, as a disciplinary system, sociology and anthropology are involved with all aspects of human activities, history, and reality. In general, if it is not God, no matter if a person is biologically, socially, or spiritually, nothing can escape sociology and anthropology. No matter who you are, what you do, and how to do it, all can be viewed as being an individual in a collective relationship, which can be a research subject. Of course, in reverse, you can also be the subject of study. Therefore the images people produce are solely a result of human action.

As for what kind of photos contains a more sociological or anthropological value and significance, which method is used andwhat should be collected will be in the scripts. As for methods, when describing an action's advantage, disadvantage, and restrictions, they can be analyzed from a theoretical perspective and not be generalized, combining with the script is more suitable.

选自《旱天课》

Selection from Zakat in Drought

选自《旱天课》

Selection from Zakat in Drought

选自《旱天课》

Selection from Zakat in Drought

选自《旱天课》

Selection from Zakat in Drought

选自《旱天课》

Selection from Zakat in Drought

选自《旱天课》

Selection from Zakat in Drought

选自《旱天课》

Selection from Zakat in Drought

选自《旱天课》

Selection from Zakat in Drought

选自《旱天课》

Selection from Zakat in Drought

C: Li Mei once said: "When Wang Zheng is pursuing images, his photos are not as impressive as they are now. But when he changed his photography idea, when he collects photos as materials of local lives, his works deeply moved us. Wang Zheng developed from an art photograph creator to a photography worker, at this time, a camera is just a visual tool, achieving the belief deep inside him" How do you view this?

W: It has been more than twenty years that Li Mei said this. She made a lot of important contributions to China's photography improvement, the great photographers and works that came out in the 80s and 90s all had deep connections with her. This includes: Hou Dengke, Yu Deshui, Chen Jin, Zhang Xinmin, An Ge, Lin Yonghui, Li Baijun, Li Shengli, Li Lang, Han Lei, Jiang Jian etc. The help and inspiration received were direct, which is obvious that I am not the only person. In the twenty years of this century, the first folk photography ceremony "Hou Dengke Documentary Photography Awards" hosted by Li keeps pushing out younger photographers and their excellent works. I appreciate and also am impressed by her contribution to the photography of China.

C: About Li Mei's this quote, she actually preset a point that: art is pursuing image, style, and identity, otherwise, it is not art. Different people have different views on this, after Duchamp and Beuys, the boundary for art expanded, why aren't Forgotten Landand Zakat in Drought art photography works? And is it still necessary to separate documentary photography and art photography? My point of view is that documentary photography is art photography in certain cases. For this, what is your idea, what do you think art is?

W: Susan Sontag once said, photography is nasty, because it gives people specious visual evidence. Do you agree with this idea? Or maybe you will say it depends on the context, it is only relative and not absolute, so the result is still reverting the context, different conclusions will be made with different logic. Similarly, let's go back to Hegel's classic philosophy to look at questions, he said philosophy, religion, art jointly formed the absolute spirit, his The Phenomenology of Spirit and other arguments are very detailed and esoteric, the logic is self-consistent, and to a large extent, it is still in agreement, not to mention whether it is widely accepted. Maybe you will say that classic philosophy completely collapsed after Nietzsche, then let's talk about Heidegger, what exists below the surface? Say Husserl's phenomenology, why we suspend phenomenons? Furthermore, let's talk about Derrida's deconstructionism, what is the relationship between reconstruction and deconstruction? We can make a lot more disciplines and ask more questions, this is the constant debate about modern philosophy, no one can realize the logical consistency of reality.

How should photography be? Before whom or after whom is more "correct"? How to strictly divide "contemporary", "documentary", and "art"?. This also needs context, the research on history shifts from the fact, to the point of view, then to context, without going into a specific story, many problems cannot be understood. The borders that are popular in photography or from the art field to photography, especially persisting on tagged "correctness", are more like a chain that restricted the photographer's creativity, even getting a little bored. There are ample directions and routes, endless of them. Any path can achieve the unrealized possibility, reach what you can contribute for art, this is like the Buddhist teaching where there are tens of thousands of ways to achieve nirvana. They are just roads, how you will reach it, and will you succeed, are not that easy. Everyone is different, you have to learn it yourself and obtain your unique method in order to just be possible for nirvana.

Photography is the same, there is no path to success in photography, there are only different routes. Photography must be built based on an object, the appearance is the basic requirement and premise for a photo. It cannot be called photography without "copying" a specific object. No matter what is your creation belief, the subject's condition usually determines the area of your expression, composition, and creation. In reverse, the weirdness of the subject doesn't represent the weirdness of your creativity, for the most part, it is some kind of misunderstanding. However, the surface is the surface, it can only be the outer representation of an existing object, not the existence itself. Just a few days ago I saw art scholar Lü Peng's WeChat message: "the true concept of images came from mental projection, and not so-called recording." Yes, only this will allow one to go beyond the top and into the core of the photo.

Another example, Hitler used pedigree to distinguish various groups, Stalin used ethnicity to distinguish, Cultural Revolution used class to divide people, today, America uses color to determine different people, of course, there is the Middle East that separates people by different religions. Prescribe its high and low, once it is severely differentiated, or even more extreme, the result will be disastrous. Citing Mr. Zhao Tingyang's perspective, the modern movements that spread around the world dragged people into a tangled game. But until today, no rule is produced to satisfy everyone. There are battles in the world, it is still not a world that people share because it is an expired world. In other words, the "world" we live in is by a physical means, therefore, the "world" is not really a world yet. With such understanding when looking at artistic or photographic problems, we can be much clearer.

Socrates said that the unexamined life is not worth living. I said, keep examining is the only path to wisdom. This is the same for photography, creation is just some visual expression build on some kind of logic base, we need to let off intuition, we also have to consider which logic to build and keep examining ourselves. We must be calm and not insist on self-correctness when we want to achieve an unreached position, that way, our gains will be bigger.

Going back to Li Mei's quote, for me, it is words that are said under a circumstance, it is also talking about the different path of image expression and not a distinction between documentary and art photography. Media serves the people, it needs to ingratiate the public demand, we understand, there is nothing to blame in the logic of the current way of survival, but a simple tabbed classification, specific defense, including the correctness of context, have no benefit to photography as a whole, we must all be careful. In fact, I don't really appreciate your trapping questions, like I cannot answer you what is art, most serious art workers cannot respond even after thinking for whole life, can you answer it? It is probably hard too.

C: Some people think that the works about Xiguhai are outdated both from photographic aesthetics and photographing methods. How do think of this?

W: If it was ten years ago, then I will refute immediately, but now I won't. I would rather use the praises and critics to learn, suspend the question and not make quick judgments, discover and understand the problems from multiple observations.

I really admire Mr. Wang Guowei's famous quote: "Each generation has its own literature." No matter who it is, if he or she can stand above the generation, complete this generation's contribution to history, then it is a very impressive thing.  Looking from another point of view to understand a generation or period, the period has a limit, it is not only because of the historical space but there is also the problem about linear time. " Which of the sages and saints of the "axis of human" wisdom did not cross beyond a generation of people? Which did not traverse different time periods? It passes through thousands of years and will continue. For them, one generation is nothing, one period is nothing.

Consider how to understand the problem of time from multiple perspectives, let's organize.

The first time concept(Artistotle): Time is just a measurement for action. It is never reversed, it is linear, self, and uniform. The second concept of time(Newton): Time is a parallel T besides XYZ(length, width, height), its dimension can be calculated. XYZ is absolute space, T is the absolute time, a concept of modern physics. The third concept of time(Kant, Hamann): Kant: Time is the intuitive form of the subject, internalized and inherently present, it is possible to feel the flow (1+2=3). A science that is relative to time is math. Geometry is spatial. Time is the intuitive form of the interior, space is the form of outer perception. Hamann: Time is only related to our senses. It is listening, a form of language. Listening produces music. Seeing is space, and seeing produces paintings. Time and space are two forms of our language. The evolution of time and space in modern philosophy that began in the early 18th century depends on whether science first or art first. Einstein's time concept (relative time concept): Can time and space be separated and imagined? Time and space are inseparable from the movement of matter. They are integrated. There is no absolute time and absolute space. Time and space are relative. Nietzsche's time concept (time concept of eternal rebirth): In addition to scientific time, there is another concept of time, that is, a non-scientific and non-technical understanding of time and space. Nietzsche opposed the linear view of time and opened a circular time centered on momentary timing. All straight lines are deceptive, all truths are curved, and time itself is a circle. Nietzsche's thought of eternal reincarnation, Heidegger said why do we want revenge? Nietzsche understood the issue of revenge as hatred of time. Nietzsche's idea of eternal reincarnation is to overcome nihilism, and the focus of his thinking is "instant", which is characterized by eternal reincarnation. The moment is not the fleeting present, but the collision between the future and the past. The most important, most heavy thing is that eternity occurs in an instant, and self-generation can be achieved in an instant in this collision. The eternal reincarnation (return) of the same, is different. 

How is that? A little brain-burning.  This is just a brief content of a lesson about "What is time" by Mr. Sun Zhouxing of Fudan University, most photographers without philosophic background find it hard to understand, it can be ignored. The past is the disappearing present, the present is passing, future is the unarrived present. If time is a long river, humans cannot endure the infinite churn of time, time is endless. That is why we create religion, set another side or afterlife. Time is a phenomenon of the biological world, time is space squeezed and melted vertically, time is a god, it can be felt but unsolvable. Time is for commitment. Only when we are in the moment of collision between the past and the future, can our actions penetrate the future and accept and affirm the past. Let me understand the issue of time on a larger scale, and continue to suspend your questions and continue to think.

C: I learned that you are not someone with only a traditional vision, but the impression you left does not seem contemporary. For this division, what do you think the reason is?

W: Hah hah, is there a division? Well if you said yes then yes, this is your judgment... We just said giving up insisting correctness is difficult, in fact, it is even more difficult for us to abandon the epistemology and methodology of dualism. I once read an article saying that as small as a couple fighting, to the war between two countries, none of which is not a conflict to defend their own ideology. The profit of each side is just the attribution of right under respective correctness. And the theory of binary opposition is a paradox in itself, so I won’t expand it anymore. Just to emphasize: all straight lines are deceptive, all truth is curved. In other words, this is the path dependence of habitual thinking. Our brains have been damaged by long-term brainwashing. The formation of split personality is closely related to the cognition and method of duality. There is a particularly important basic method for the treatment of depression and bipolar disorder, and it is also to solve the duality of the patient’s linear thinking. The world is not so simple as black and white. All the scientific and artistic things we know are hypotheses, and we live in this world composed of various hypotheses. The universe can be a multi-universe, so our thinking can at least try multi-dimensional thinking, which is like the wisdom of Buddhism, there is no difference in the ultimate sense, but it can help you distinguish right from wrong in the details of needles and brains. That is the wisdom of discernment without distinction.

The question comes again, I am of Hui ethnicity, and believe in Islam, will I be "Buddhist" just by applying a few Buddhist teaching? It is probably not that easy. We can definitely use Islamic Sufism to explain the profound interpretation of the ultimate problem to prove that "the world and I are one", we can also use Christian teachings to interpret the questions on life and art, but under the current social environment, using Buddhist wisdom is more save, another problem on context. What is the final phase of reading? It is obvious that it is not to obtain the endless knowledge, Zhuang Zi had already determined it: "There is a limit to my life, but there is no limit for knowledge. Pursuing something endless with what is limited is just making trouble for one's self." Then what is it? Is realization, or consciousness, one is the result, the other is the process. We will never realize it, if we do then we become Buddha, so we can only continue to understand, work hard to make the knowledge or wisdom more understandable, but it still depends on you to succeed.

C: Yang Xiaomiao said: "The image from Wang Zheng's lenses came out from nature, it rose from the grand but harsh desert by itself." When I was looking at your works, I personally felt that you really have to thank the land and the people, of course, the photographer too.

W: Yes, photography is different from literature, fine art, and music by first being grateful to the subject in front of the camera. I am able to produce so many photos about Xihaigu must be a bestow of that land and the people, so I must remember it and be thankful. Actually, no matter which kind of image we produce, we should be grateful for the existence of that subject. Photography is just this, you are nothing without the object, and without your discovery and editing there will be no image of that object too, so we also have to thank the wonderful photographers' amazing contribution.

Heidegger found a special concept to express his philosophical point of view, namely "Dasein". In extension "Dasein" can be understood as people, but connotatively there are no regulations. "Dasein" is always my existence without general existence, "Dasein" is single, irreplaceable, and irreproducible. The essence of "Dasein" lies in its existence, it is not prescribed but obtains the essence in existence.

The two main components of the structuralist theory represented by Saussure are "integrity" and "synchronicity". According to structuralist theory, the whole is of logical priority to the part. Because everything is a complex and unified whole, the nature of any one of its components cannot be understood in isolation, but it can only be placed in an overall network of relationships to be understood, that is, it can be connected with other parts. Synchronicity, since language is a symbol system, the relationship between the various elements within the system is interrelated and coexisting at the same time, so the language as a symbol system is synchronic. As for the history of a language, it can also be seen as a sequence of components within an interacting system. Deconstructivism is a critical inheritance of the orthodox principles and standards of modernism.

I often think that talking about photographic problems is troublesome. You photograph in order to photograph, it is very easy to stop at the basic technical issues; entering into the comparative discussion of photography history, it is also easy for us to lack originality in the search for differentiated expressions. When discussing the theoretical issues of photography, one has to quote philosophical concepts or ways of discourse, which is also hypocritical. Very helpless……

To continue, it was said that photography, after all, has been accompanied by the occurrence and development of the modern industry. From the point of view of "Dasein", no matter what image method we use to associate, understand, and express the specific state of the "other", or what kind of wholeness or synchronic system we touch, regardless of the way in which "deconstruction and construction" are carried out, as far as the image is concerned, the "other" or "the existence of the other" is the prerequisite and basis for the production of the image, that is, the objectification of photography. In my opinion, the image result transformed from the object can roughly be regarded as the existence as a "cognitive fulcrum" and the value as the "imaginary fulcrum". The first mainly uses images to obtain specific information that conveys the subject, the information contained in the view itself such as who, how, and why "he" is. It can be a general souvenir for memorialization; it can also be a beautification of the subject's scenery, wedding dresses, advertisements, etc.; it can also be a specific treatment of the object's representation, allowing the reader to get into the information behind the representation. The images made by the second concept the semantics are often unclear, or some kind of abstract visual structure, or the linguistic translation of specific rhetoric, or those plausible uncertain expressions, etc., which require the reader to observe and associate with this visual fulcrum, generate a certain meaning of the viewer's self-identification, which can be this or that. Especially in the field of contemporary art, the value of the image as the main body of expression has been greatly weakened. The linkage of various means such as editing, writing, curating, space, music, light effects, multimedia, ready-made objects, and installations may constitute a complete piece. It can also be said that this is still a different way to realize the work. Photography is inseparable from the object, but when it becomes an image, the boundaries between object and subject, other and self, objective or subjective, and even content and form are often not so clear. Different contexts have different semantics. Therefore, it will eventually touch upon the question of how to bidirectionally or multidirectionally transcend the issues. It is obviously not enough to stay in a one-way expression.

There are a lot more to thank, such as the favor God gave to us.

C: Is there any other projects that you are working on or plan to work on in the future about Xihaigu? Do you think that this land and its people have more to discover?

W: For now no. But I visited there these ten years when I got free time, the photographed films are not completely digitalized. Zakat in Drought that was completed last year was also created under the inspiration of my friend, it is a result of rediscovery and re-editing for the most part. If I have a chance, maybe, I will shoot again and see if there is a possibility of making a third series. As for how much more I can find about Xihaigu, there are many, every inch of land should be cherished, not even mentioning that big of a region. There are mountains, there is water, there are yellow dirt, nature, people, and life.

《是时非是敦煌》

"It Is But Not Dunhuang"

《是时非是敦煌》

"It Is But Not Dunhuang"

《是时非是敦煌》

"It Is But Not Dunhuang"

《是时非是敦煌》

"It Is But Not Dunhuang"

《是时非是敦煌》

"It Is But Not Dunhuang"

C: What do you like the most about photography, what do you dislike, and why?

W: I think is still the objectification of photography, I love it and hated it. I love it because you have a real object on hand, the visual singularity presented by the object will naturally become novel and strange after being acquired by you. You can also recreate the object by various means before and after to realize the meaning or value direction you want to express, and even control and dominate the "generation and destruction" of the object.

I hated it because I cannot escape the restriction of the object, the singularity of the object does not mean the singularity of creation. Therefore recently I went drawing, there is no "item" to look to, so it is also pretty hard. I wanted to build a nonexistent figure but often fall into the pit of experience vision. Fortunately, in the field of abstract paper painting with various materials that I entered, a large part of it was completed by non-experiential intuition.

C: Recall back to your career, who and which works influenced you the most?

W: Influence the most, is to what degree? There are so many contributors throughout photography history and art history, there are different gains of inspiration from different time periods. Maybe someone's direction of creation is determined by one work or one special event, I don't think I belong to this category. In photography, the 90s influenced me the most, specifically Hou Dengke and Li Mei.

C: You posted in WeChat Moment that: "The presence of the wake of free will and spirituality can maybe make you yourself." Can you explain more about this quote in detail?

W: How did masters derive from various fields after the war in Japan? The essence of Japanese Zen is not hard to understand, if we believe that we and others are equal in value, then we are in a state of being rejected, how will our inner selves be? It will lead to infinity. To realize a certain possibility, everyone needs to go through the process of meditation and enlightenment. Since all things are the activation or manifestation of the "Path", all things (including humans) have the ultimate point or the ultimate point, the "Path".

In this way, daily activities such as flower arranging, drinking tea, martial arts, singing and dancing in life, etc., are elevated to the metaphysical and become different ways of Japanese ikebana, tea ceremony, bushido, and so on. The various manifestations of each person are a kind of concrete "Tao(Path)-manifestation" of the individual's enlightenment, not a direct interpretation (non-noumenon). Even some extreme behaviors can be greatly respected or admired, and the individual creativity that is inspired will enter the infinite possibilities of personalization. This is true of Japanese art, and so is photography. This is one of the ideological pillars of the Yamato nation extracted by the Shinyin Sect of Buddhism spread to Japan, which is called "Japanese Zen". "Path" is the nirvana of Buddhism. Shakyamuni never talked about the situation in which he attained "Tao(Path)", and never stated what "Tao" is. It can only be achieved through comprehension. It is indescribable. As in Taoism: "Tao can be said but cannot fully be explained." I think this is the main reason.

Derrida's deconstructivism and deconstructionist are to break the existing unitary order. Of course, this order does not only refer to the social order. In addition to the existing social moral order, marriage order, and ethical norms, it also includes the order of personal consciousness, such as creative habits, acceptance habits, thinking habits, and people’s unconscious national character formed by the accumulation of more abstract cultural heritage. Anyway, it is to break the order and then create a more reasonable order. Deconstruction uses the vocabulary of modernism, but inverts and reconstructs the relationship between various existing vocabularies, logically denies the traditional basic design principles (aesthetics, mechanics, function), and produces new meanings. Using the concept of decomposition, emphasizes breaking, superimposing, and reorganizing, paying attention to the individual part itself, and opposing the overall unity to create a sense of fragmentation and uncertainty.

Sorry, I don't remember, I think it was Montesquieu that said, the East is the cradle of universalism. In the history of Asian countries, the East has never had a trace of a spirit of freedom, only that kind of despotism. Contrasting this point of view, and thinking about Japan again, it can be said that the various achievements in various fields of science, technology, literature, and art in Japan after the war have complemented the total amount of achievements of human civilization. What else can the reason be? Yes, it is the awakening of the free spirit. How about China? Universalism and despotism remain, and its tradition is also a Buddhist system of continuous interpretation of Confucianism. There is no historical romanticism that affirms human personality.

Besides, human beings are biological，social, and divine, and art is nothing more than embodying the divine part of human beings. Emancipating oneself, releasing spirituality, and entering the unknown to touch the unrealized possibilities of mankind should be the basis of the artist's thinking. Even ordinary people who do not work in art, only living in the biological world is really regrettable. Therefore, with the awakening of free will and the presentation of spiritual ontology, perhaps we can become ourselves.

C: Which attainment or quality do you value the most in an art photographer?

W: The image of the art photography is a visual pivot about imagination and connection.

In 1985, Zhao Wuji said in China Academy of Art: How to make a painting simple but rich? Is to be "relevant". If it is relevant, then it is powerful; if it is not, then no matter how much you put into the frame is useless. You always focus on small items when drawing, I always require you to be simple. Drawing actually does not need so much theory, I think the less theory the better, as long as keeping the hands and the eyes together. Then, learn how to observe and control the image.

Taking the middle path is not easy, otherwise, Confucius will not say: "I understood why the path does not work: the wise overshoots, the fool does not reach.  I understood why the path is not popular: the sage did too much, the others do not touch. People cannot live without food, but little know its taste." Zhuang Zi once said: "Within the world, gods say but do not discuss, beyond the world, the gods know the existence but do not say."

I think this also counts as an answer.

C: The last question, how do you see current photography in China?

W: As I said just now, I was drawing recently, so I don't know much about the situation of photography. I did occasionally look at works from photography festivals or folk awards, but I did not dive deep into it, therefore I cannot just blindly comment. But I want to put forward a question, which is that every photographer should consider how to be original, how to create the unique work derived from your life that can't be copied. Please remember, only you are your highest value.

I have been nagging for so long, the babble of self-feeling is only a point of reference for everyone.

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